personal reflections and observations of daily life, its idiosyncrasies, false notions, pseudo highlights, et al.
At the very basic core.. I think it is the fear of consequences only that keeps ppl good and pious..But that fear seeps down to having a clear conscience which ultimately drives goodness or vices in a man..
as long as the fear out weighs the perceived benefit...if it doesnt then the punishment does not...i think there is more to moral foundation and environment that play a factor as well...and social.situational norms...
It is moral values which make man/ woman good.
No, I think people are either basically good or basically not good. Punishment and loss will only achieve momentarily effect, the rest depends on each individuals basic traits and attributes.As for ecological sensibilities, I think they are more a learned process, which comes from experiences and exposure. To me that is much more of a learned ability or ability that is passed on through lifestyles of generations, than an ability that is naturally present.Hope your weekend was great dear Susan,xoxo
that's a deep question. requires some pondering. but I'm inclined to agree with Zuzana so far.have a great day!
It is beyond the fear of consequences. It is intrinsic. It is the desire to be fair. I personally have seen many people who do not do the wrong things even when there is clearly no bad consequence. While I say this I do not disagree there might be people who do good because of fear.
No I don't think consequences alone foster goodness. We wouldn't have criminals repeatedly going to prison for the same crimes. I think it goes deeper than that - a combination of nature/nurture/environment...and education (not academic, but from people who matter.) Whew! I already forgot your second question so I'll just stop here.You can't say you're not provocative. You provoke thinking. That's nice.
Susan Deborah, what a pleasure to meet you! You sound like such a vivid and interesting woman! I love your profile picture by the way, it's perfect!As for your question though...I think perhaps that a fear of consequence can certainly have an effect on how good a person is and maybe that is how some people begin in a sense. But I think if that is one's only motive for being good, it will fail at some point. Fear simply isn't enough. Of course this is only my opinion but I think love has to be the thing that moves people to goodness and kindness toward other and also in regards to religion and belief, love has to be one's main motivation.This is such a fascinating question and I'm sure it could be discussed for hours but there is a simple answer for you!Have a wonderful day and I really look forward to getting to know you in the future! I will be back to read over your posts! :)Love Colleen
Consequences for our actions is always a good motivator for living a good life. But living a good life because God first loved us and sent His Son to die for our sins is far better. :-)The Bible says the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. God bless you Susan Deborah and have a great week :-)~Ron
Hmmm... are these trick questions, Susan? ;-) The second question is a bit lofty for humble me, so I will skip it, if you don't mind. As for question one, I do think that fear of consequences keep people on their toes, but I also think that as we grow and mature, we come to develop that thing called a conscience, which serves as a true measure for our internal perception and understanding of right and wrong. We use our conscience, really, to help guide us on whether or not something is bad, and whether or not we should indulge in it. Naturally, there are the consequences that have been established by the norms, but I even think that our norms have been governed by our collective conscience. Sheesh, am I making sense? ;-)Loved your two questions, Susan! Thanks for the always thought-provoking posts.Big hugs to you!Nevine
Both difficult questions at first sight... and trying to see the connection or relation 'tween the two...#1 All humans are born with both qualities or features: the good and the bad. Depending on what values you are raised your tendency will go more to one or the other direction. So, some might fear the consequences others will not.I am one of those who believes everyone pays for what they've done wrong, either from other humans or the Higher Power. And so is when you sow the seeds of love...LOVE is what you get back.#2 That's something we do as we go. All you have to do is show or be shown or see a clean landscape, and the beauty it gives... and then see one full of rubbish and pollution... and thus, what would you prefer a world like the latter or the former? It all depends on each of us and how we help one or the other to survive.There, I've said it.lots of love!;)
"Do you think that only fear of consequences (loss/punishment) keeps (wo)man good and pious?"The one who answers yes to that question might be a psychopath. We do right because it is right. We are motivated by empathy and a concious of not wanting to hurt others.I read a while back one out of every 25 people are psychopaths. If that is even close to true we need tough consequences to keep those folks in line. They have no moral integrity. Pesronally I believe there is a little psychopath in all of us. Take a look at any two year old - my point will be proven.
The answer to your first question is - Not only. A lot depends on the person's inner quality, his inborn essence.As for your second question - No, I don't think ecological sensibilities are inherent. I tend to agree with Zuzana in that it's a learned ability.
Not completely true and not always. Fear of consequences is not the only thing that keeps a man pious. Moral and ethical values do play a major role too. And as far as ecological sensibilities, they are not always inherent too. We gain them as we age and by learning from our surroundings.
Depends on the person. Some people are fear driven, some are reward driven. Either way, we're all just trying to be successful social creatures in our own particular ways, and to obtain the approval of the other members of our species since we need them to survive. If we didn't we wouldn't even have a concept such as piousness.
This brings to mind an incredible passage from Of Human Bondage where the protagonist Philip Carey raised as a good Christian with fear of God and Hell ingrained in his mind contemplates the very same thing.One day, sitting on a bench in a garden in the gauzy London dawn, he contemplates the beauty of the world and realises in an instant that there is no necessity of fearing retribution from the heavens any more. That one can be good for its own sake. And shaken by this epiphany, he stands up and looks at the sun rising and for the first time in his life has this incredible feeling of freedom. That it is possible to be good. Not becoz Someone will punish you if you're not. But becoz you are good. :)Hope that answers your question. Philip Carey is sort of my moral trace in the fictional world. He thinks and feels a lot like I do sometimes I keep revisiting him for that reason.
I would like to think people are basically good or bad. The fear of punishment helps the people with an inherent grey streak to conform to what is acceptable as the right ways of living...
Depends on the person.Moral values and principles may derive from society, religion or from within one's own self. So I do believe that moral values make a woman/man good.Thanks for this thought-provoking post, dear Susan.Have a great week ahead!B xx
Why do wo(men)walk the straight and narrow path?Some say they do so because they fear God's wrathand some because they are scared of the aftermathbut none would agree even under a serious oaththat it is because of the lack of chances s(he) hath.
S:Welcome again. Clear conscience, yes but consequences, I am not quite sure.Brian:Agreed.
CS:But moral values based on what? Following values have some purpose. What is that purpose?Zuzana:Momentary effect, yes. I am wondering now whether people are inherently good or bad. Another question to my question, here.
Hope:Zuzana has definitely put it succinctly. You have a great one too, dear Hope.Sameera:Point taken.
Myrna:A combination sounds interesting. A combination of genes, culture and nature as well.Thanks for the kind words, dear Myrna.Colleen:Welcome and thanks for returning the visit. It is much appreciated. Love prevails when everything else fails. Do come by whenever and feel at home. Looking forward to knowing you too.Joy always :)
Ron:Your reason seems worthwhile and practical.Have a lovely remainder of the week, Ron.Nevine:No tricks here, dear Nevine. Just a meandering put forth. Collective conscience seems like a very scientific reply to this question. I have Jung in mind now. Did you also think of him while writing the comment?Big hugs, dearest Nevine :)
Dulce:Genes play a vital role, then. Hmmmm. Love love love. :)GQ:Psychopath?!?!?!? An extreme answer, this one. You come up with quirky stuff always, GQ.
DUTA:Inborn and genetic, is the key to blame. Sukanya:Hmmmm.
Tattytiara:True. I think piousness and morality are linked. This link varies in degree from person to person.Karishma:Couldn't have said it more succinctly. Love these words of yours.
Yuvika:I guess so. Punishment from an unknown power which has been instilled by religion.Betty:Values gained from the environment around us makes us good or bad.
Govind:Guessed!!!Lack of chances, oh1 my God! What a quirky answer. Shall think on those lines now on . . . and blame the chances.
Absolutely not! My children, age ranging from 2 to 13, are evidence of that. I loved that you posted this up for discussion - fantastic! :)Thanks for coming by Sofia's Ideas - I replied to your comment on there as well. I'm so glad we found each other! :)
Oh, I also meant to say that as far as it being inherent & intrinsic - absolutely it can! I find myself learning from my children on a near daily basis when it comes to this. My eldest especially, has a deep respect for all living things and always has. He teaches me so much... I mean that, he really truly does.
Sofia:You have lovely children. Bless them.Thanks for your wonderful words. Joy to have to have your insights.